View source for RetroWikipedia:Talk page layout

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{{about|the general layout of talk pages on RetroWikipedia|help on how to use the talk page and contribute to discussions|Help:Talk pages}}
{{Information page|WP:TPL|WP:TALKLAYOUT}}
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This '''RetroWikipedia guide to talk page layout''' is an annotated, working guide to the basics of laying out a [[Help:Talk pages|talk page]]. Complicated talk pages may be best modeled on the layout of an existing talk page of an appropriate structure.

==Purpose==
Template clutter has been a concern for the community for a long time. Article talk pages have historically been overburdened by templates from various processes on the path to featured status.<ref>{{Self-reference link |RetroWikipedia:RetroWikipedia Signpost/2008-03-24/Dispatches#Dispatches: Articlehistory and banners tame talk page clutter|"Dispatches: Articlehistory and banners tame talk page clutter". ''The RetroWikipedia Signpost''. 24 March 2008.}}</ref> This guide aims to identify '''best layout practices''', make '''general recommendations''', and '''eliminate redundancy''', especially in the ordering and placement of talk page specific templates, such as {{tl|Talk header}}, {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}}, {{tl|FAQ}}, and so on. This guide cannot cover every possibility that can be found on RetroWikipedia, especially on highly active talk pages, so please always use [[WP:IAR|common sense]] and good editorial judgment.

==Talk page layout==
{{See also|RetroWikipedia:Talk page layout/Sandbox}}
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Talk pages are usually divided into three sections: lead ("bannerspace"), table of contents, and discussions.

===Lead (bannerspace)===
{{shortcut|WP:TALKLEAD|WP:TALKORDER}}
The lead of the discussion presents to the reader the guidelines and policies, article achievements, related pages, and links to past discussions. Templates are often used to present these messages, and these templates should be prioritized to fit the needs of the specific article. The order in which they are most often presented is listed below. This is '''not''' a prescriptive list, but rather an observation of how the banners of well-structured talk pages are usually ordered (variations do exist). This list supposes the banners are present; if they are not, use editorial judgement and remember: [[wikt:less is more|less is more]].
# Active nominations, when applicable – {{tl|GA nominee}}, {{tl|Featured article candidates}}, or {{tl|Peer review}}
# Skip templates: {{tl|Skip to talk}}, {{tl|Skip to bottom}}, and [[Template:Skip to bottom#See also|others]] 
# On redirect talk pages, {{tl|Talk page of redirect}} – see [[Template:Talk page of redirect#Usage|documentation]] to ensure correct usage (and ensure against [[Template:Talk page of redirect#Misuse|misuse]])
# {{tl|Talk header}} – should only be used where it is needed; see [[Template:Talk header#Usage|documentation]]
# High-importance attention templates, such as {{tl|Notice}}, {{tl|Contentious topics/talk notice}}, {{tl|Gs/talk notice}}, or {{tl|BLP others}}
# {{tl|COI editnotice}}, {{tl|Warning}}
# Specific talk page guideline banners, such as {{tl|Censor}}, {{tl|Controversial}}, {{tl|Not a forum}}, {{tl|FAQ}}, or {{tl|Round in circles}}
# Language-related talk page guideline banners, such as {{tl|American English}}, {{tl|British English}}, or other [[:Category:Varieties of English templates|varieties of English templates]].
# Any "article history" (e.g., {{tl|GA}}, {{tl|FailedGA}}, {{tl|Old XfD multi}}, {{tl|Old prod}}, {{tl|Old peer review}}, {{tl|Afd-merged-from}}, {{tl|Old CfD}}, {{tl|Old RfD}}) or "article milestone" (e.g., {{tl|DYK talk}}, {{tl|On this day}}, {{tl|ITN talk}}) banner, preferably within an {{tl|Article history}} template if there are many items
# {{tl|WikiProject banner shell}} either standalone or containing any relevant [[RetroWikipedia:WikiProject|WikiProject]] banners
#* {{tl|WikiProject Biography}} should usually be the first WikiProject if there is a banner shell, and must be the first WikiProject if there is no banner shell (because it also displays {{tl|BLP}} above it)
# {{tl|Image requested}}, {{tl|Photo requested}}, {{tl|Infobox requested}}, and other banners indicating a known issue with the page (if a WikiProject template has its own image or infobox request parameter, use that one instead)
# {{tl|Connected contributor}}, {{tl|Press}}, or {{tl|High traffic}}, if applicable
# {{tl|Refideas}}, {{tl|To do}}, or {{tl|Consensus}}, when used as a banner
# {{tl|Reliable sources for medical articles}}
# Attribution history templates: {{tl|Copied}}, {{tl|Ticket confirmation}}, {{tl|Split article}}, {{tl|Merged-from}}, {{tl|Merged-to}}, or {{tl|Translated page}} (when full-width)
# Page metadata, such as {{tl|Annual readership}} and {{tl|Section sizes}}
# Smaller, right-aligned banners, including {{tl|Translated page}} (if not used full-width among attribution history templates)
# {{tl|Archives}} and other similarly dedicated archive templates; see {{slink||Archives}} section below

====Categories====
Categories that are not inserted automatically by the templates used in the lead (bannerspace) should be placed after the last banner and before the discussion.
<!--
====Interwikis====
Interwikis should be placed after the last banner and before the discussion. If there are also categories, interwikis should be placed below them.
-->

===Table of contents===
The TOC is usually generated automatically, as in articles. Note that currently this will only happen if the talkpage [[Help:Section#Table of contents (TOC) | has at least four sections]].<!-- need a ___TOC___ magic word to force generation with 3 or 2 sections, perhaps? but even better would be a permalink to talkpage sections that would survive the archiving-process.... hmmm. --> There should not be any reason to fiddle around with the TOC in normal circumstances, but some high-traffic pages may opt to place the TOC in a different location because of special considerations. Sometimes, a page with many newer editors benefits from adding a friendly note to put new threads ''at the bottom'' and adding the TOC to encourage proper formatting. Other talk pages opt not to have a TOC at all; this is done by placing the "[[Help:Magic words|magic word]]" {{xt|<nowiki>__NOTOC__</nowiki>}} anywhere on the page (but preferably at the very top).

===Discussions===
{{sh|WP:UNTITLED}}
{{For|guidelines on how to contribute to discussions|RetroWikipedia:Talk page guidelines#How to use article talk pages}}
A level-2 header ({{xt|<nowiki>== Header ==</nowiki>}}) should immediately follow the lead/banners. If the level-2 header isn't placed, the TOC will show up after some discussions, rather than before them. If you come across a TOC that follows comments, add a level-2 section header, such as {{xt|<nowiki>== Untitled ==</nowiki>}} or {{xt|<nowiki>== Comments by IP 192.0.2.1 ==</nowiki>}}, summarizing the top comments after the banners (or categories, if present).

Long or complex threads may benefit from organizing using one or more level-3 header(s) ({{xt|<nowiki>=== Header ===</nowiki>}}).

If you include references, add {{t|reflist-talk}} or {{t|sources-talk}} after your comment, to keep citations within your thread. If you wish to encourage other users to place their comments before the reference list rather than after it, you can insert a level-3 header titled "References" or add a hidden comment.

==Archives==
{{For|the how-to guide on talk page archiving|Help:Archiving a talk page}}
Talk archives can be displayed through either the {{tl|talk header}} or {{tl|archives}} templates. In some cases, it may be preferable to include {{tl|archives}}, even if the talk header is present, such as when there are a lot of archives, or when they are not named according to the numbering convention, or if a specific archiving note is required. In these cases, the automatic display of archives in {{tl|talk header}} can be suppressed with the {{para|noarchive|yes}} option. When archives are displayed, archive searching is available by default but can be disabled with the {{para|search|no}} option, in either template.<!--Why would you want to disable this? Template documentation offers no clue.-->

==See also==
*[[Help:Talk pages]]
*[[RetroWikipedia:Talk page guidelines]]
*[[RetroWikipedia:Talk page templates]]
*[[RetroWikipedia:Template index/Talk namespace]]
*[[RetroWikipedia:Template index/WikiProject banners]]
*[[RetroWikipedia:Don't lose the thread]]
*[[RetroWikipedia:WikiProject Talk pages]]

==References==
{{reflist}}

{{Templates for archiving|state=expanded}}

[[Category:RetroWikipedia discussion]]